1991 Vulcan 500 Carb/Spark/Starter Problem

Everything in-between the gas cap and the carbs. Also how the engine inhales.
loudjosh81
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:47 am
I ride: 1990 En500 A1 ~ 1981 Yamaha Xj750 Seca

1991 Vulcan 500 Carb/Spark/Starter Problem

Postby loudjosh81 » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:04 am

Ok. I won't try to be brief, because that is what happens on every other forum/blog/site that I've visited on the 'net since March of this year. Every person that has had the same problem I am currently having, or something similar, always ends up stopping their thread before the solution is put up (sever mechanical blue balls, not cool) or the thread is deleted because too many years went by.

Please don't tell me about some other thread, unless you can provide a link to it, and it is working, current, and helpful.

I am currently living in South Korea, as an English teacher, and I purchased a 1990 (not really sure which year, because of the import market, paperwork gets messed up pretty easily) Kawasaki En 500. The paper work says 1994, the frame number puts it as a 1991, and the Engine is Stamped with Ex500###### and the numbers on that put it as a 1990. The bike was used as a delivery bike before I bought it, which is the only way I could afford to buy a big bike in Korea. The delivery bike was severly abused/neglected/mistreated...pick your own term.

First things that had to be replaced were brakes, fork seals and the time chain and timing chain tensioner and a new exhaust system. I couldn't get a Jardine or other brand name exhaust over here (prices are unbelievable) so the mechanic made a custom one, by putting some mufflers from a Korean bike on it, pulling some of the baffles out, and making new headers. Looks great, and sounds nice. Just a tad louder than stock. Luckily I have a depenedable (enough) mechanic over here, and after a few days the bike was on the road. If I had a garage (or anything similar) the work would have all been done by myself. I am not a mechanic, but I tend to be quite talented with my hands, and I've been putting together old bikes since I was about 10 years old, and helping my dad rebuild them since I could hold a spanner. Lack of space limits the amount of work that can be done, as does monsoon season and early night falls.

The entire time I've owned the bike, I've battled a leaky fuel petcock, leaky float bowls, and rough idling (about once a month) and backfiring (following the wonky idling). When it would idle rough, I would drain the float bowls, and it always ran better afterwards. I always assumed some water got into it, or some dirt. I didn't put much effort into fixing the bike up, as it was just something to get me around when I couldn't be bothered to take the subway or a bus.

In March of this year, I went out for a ride, and the belt disentegrated on me. I was bummed, because I knew the belt would cost more than what the bike was worth, and I got lucky on Ebay and found a NOS belt and with shipping it was less than 100$. The bike sat for about a month, waiting for the belt to arrive.

Once I got the belt installed, I took it for a ride and it was fine. The next day, I was going to drive it to work, and the bike wouldn't start. Dead battery. I bought a trickly charger instead of a new battery, and recharged mine. I decided it was time to tackle the battery issue, and find out why my battery kept dying. I started by eliminating the extra lights/sirens and other wires that the PO had put on the bike when it was in service for deliverys. I also discovered that the main fuse block/relay was bad, the starter solenoid was shot, and the clutch/neutral switch was disabled. I got that sorted out in no time, again thanks to quick service from excellent En500 ebayers, only to still have a battery that wouldn't stay charged, but it was holding a charge longer now. I decided it had to be a problem with the Stator, Regulator or Flywheel Magneto. Upon taking off the alternator cover, I saw the famous shattered Kawasaki magnets. This is sometime around the begining of May. The bike has been sitting for a couple of months now, and before the belt fix it had also sat for about 4 months waiting out a winter. No it wasn't winterized, because it doesn't snow much here in the winter, so I drive it on sunny days. (driving is fun even in the extreme cold). Waiting for the new Flywheel to come in the mail (another ebay prize for less than 100$) I found out the seller shipped it to my address in America. It wouldn't get to Korea (by the time my dad shipped it) until sometime in June. I was going home at the end of July, so I told my dad to just wait, and not waste the money shipping it to my address in Korea. (keeping prices as low as possible on my project)

I came back to Korea at the end of August, with a new Magneto Flywheel, Brake rotor (mine was like a set of train tracks) brake pads front and rear, new regulator, a new c.d.i, and pod air filters for the carbs. The P.O. had removed the air filter, and drilled out the airbox, and never put in another filter. The bike ran, so I left it alone. Not having another EN500 to compare it to, I thought the performance was fine. It wasn't. I thought that once I got back it would be as simple as putting on the flywheel and starting the bike up.

It's been 2 weeks since I've been back to Korea, and I still can't get the bike to start. I put the flywheel on, a new stator, pickups, spark plugs, wires, caps and the regulator. The spark was so much stronger than before I started the work, I was sure that it would fire right away. All it did was backfire. Loudly. One time. I tried again, with a bit of starting fluid, hoping that the bike would catch and run on its own accord again, and the same loud backfire was my reward.

I took the carbs off, hoping to see a bunch of gunk inside, but they were spotless. I cleaned them anyhow, with a tooth brush, carb cleaner, q tips, and compressed air. I made sure the floats were at 17 mms, and if the bike ever starts up again, I'll be doing the carb synch with the oil-in-a-tube taped to a yard stick tool. I did spill some antifreeze in the cylinder when I took the valve cover off to set the valve clearances (thinking this would help it start and eliminate the chatter I hear when driving) The valves were within their tolerances. I think it was something around .015" for the front and .018" for the rear (whatever the normal range is, mine were right smack in the middle on all of them) Valves out of the way, I changed the oil to get rid of the Anti-freeze that spilled in. I reinstalled the spark plugs, (checked for spark) and found that the bike wouldn't even give me the heart-stopping backfire now.

According to everythign I read, the bike takes around 3.4 liters of oil. I also read that the window the oil should be about halfway. The bike only had about 2 liters in it, and the window was halfway, I hit three litres and the window was covered, it is possible that I measured wrong, I was doing a lot of the work by flashlight (never recomended, my wife wants me to start using her fathers garage. I would but he lives too far away to convienently work on the bike).

I need some insight to what could be keeping me from starting this bike, and having one last riding season before leaving Korea for the warmth of Arizona.

There is gas in the carbs, and good spark. When I put the pod air filters on, I blocked the vaccuum port on the carb, and used a rubber hose (until the Coasters come in the mail) to block off the reed valve air induction ports on top of the valve cover. I am going to the store right now to get a paper filter to put on the crankcase breather. (would this keep it from starting, if the crankcase breather has no filter on it?) Cleaning the carbs I discovered that the main jets didn't have the rubber o-rings or spacers, and the bowls were put together with some silicon sealant. I'm sure the other jets are messed up. I'm not looking for instant good running, I'm looking for somethign that shows it will start. I ordered the carb rebuild kit today, and I am ordering new Jets from Keihin. (I'm not sure which kind yet, I'm waiting for them to respond to an email I sent them, I will update with whatever they recomend).

I have made a lot of changes recently, and before I started it, the bike ran, just it wasn't worth a crap.
Can you please help me see whatever it is that I'm missing. I want to be thorough, because I also help many of my friends with bike stuff, and this is leaving me feeling cruddy not knowing what I did wrong or missed.

To sum it up, new plugs, wires, caps, flywheel, stator, wiring harness, starter relay, fuse box, c.d.i. unit, pod air filters, exhaust, valve cover.
The bike is getting gas, and it has good spark.
I can't bump start it.
I can't get it to backfire anymore.
It won't acknowledge starting fluid.

Sorry for being so long winded, I tried to keep it short.... I appreciate you taking your time to read through it, and I hope you can add some insight.

Once again thank you in advance for your help and support!

Josh

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Triangles
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Re: 1991 Vulcan 500 Carb/Spark/Starter Problem

Postby Triangles » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:11 pm

I think I can help at least narrow down a few of your issues. First I have some questions that must be answered/clarified....

First if I under stand you correctly you replaced the ignition module(it's not really a CDI igniton). I've done a lot of research on the ignition as I'm attempting to convert to computer controlled ignition and fuel injection. Why did you replace this if it was running fine before? I would suspect your old one is just fine. What year did your new ignition module come from? Are the old/new part numbers on the modules the same?

How do you know you're getting spark? Spark plug out of socket and cranking the engine over?

I hope you still have your old flywheel. What model/year did your new flywheel come off of? I suspect your flywheel is at the root of your problems. All years Vulcan 500 and Ninja 500 flywheels will mechanically fit but you MUST have a flywheel from an EN500A!!! The later models use a single ignition pickup where our older vulcan 500's use two. My gut says you have a flywheel from an incompatible newer Vulcan 500 or ninja 500 flywheel. If you can, look at the raised "bumps or fingers" on the out side of the flywheel. Their position and length MUST be identical. If they are different you still may be able to salvage it if you are handy with electronics and schematics. You would have to use the ignition module to match the flywheel(ie same year/model) and splice it into the wiring harness.

Once you've got that sorted out and you are certain that you have the correct flywheel and ignition module you can move on to the other issues. If your ignition system is working correctly the engine will start and run briefly with a squirt of starting fluid in each carb.

You WILL have to do a great deal of tuning to get pod filters to work. It will start and run with out changes from stock but the instant you touch the throttle it will literally run like shit! Since without the restriction of the air box it goes way lean when you open the throttle. I'd personally recommend finding a stock air box, air filter, and main carb jets. Tuning a carb can be a pain. If your not deterred by the black art of carb tuning then you will need a selection of jets. I bought a wide range of jets off of jetsrus.com I'll have to dig up what jets I ended up with. The main jet is the only jet you're really going to have to change. The idle jet (if that's what it's called, I don't remember) will need to be adjusted. and your needle jet will most likely need to be shimmed. I got mine to work, but I like the way the stock set up works as it's much smoother to operate.

As far as the oil, you must have the bike upright and level for the sight glass to be used. When you put a new oil filter on 3.4L is fairly accurate. it will be closer to 3 without changing the filter.

I'd get your spark working correctly as the bike will start, run, and die with a squirt of starting fluid regardless of the condition of thecarbs. The filter on the crank case breather or I should say lack of wont affect how it runs. It would just allow dirt into the crank case.... a bad thing! Let us know how it goes.
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Triangles
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Re: 1991 Vulcan 500 Carb/Spark/Starter Problem

Postby Triangles » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:58 pm

I suppose if you do have the correct flywheel/ignition module it's possible one of the wires on the ignition pickups (vr sensors) is bad or cut.
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Sibanda
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Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:17 pm
I ride: Bike

Re: 1991 Vulcan 500 Carb/Spark/Starter Problem

Postby Sibanda » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:23 pm

loudjosh81 wrote:Ok. I won't try to be brief, because that is what happens on every other forum/blog/site that I've visited on the 'net since March of this year. Every person that has had the same problem I am currently having, or something similar, always ends up stopping their thread before the solution is put up (sever mechanical blue balls, not cool) or the thread is deleted because too many years went by.

Please don't tell me about some other thread, unless you can provide a link to it, and it is working, current, and helpful.

I am currently living in South Korea, as an English teacher, and I purchased a 1990 (not really sure which year, because of the import market, paperwork gets messed up pretty easily) Kawasaki En 500. The paper work says 1994, the frame number puts it as a 1991, and the Engine is Stamped with Ex500###### and the numbers on that put it as a 1990. The bike was used as a delivery bike before I bought it, which is the only way I could afford to buy a big bike in Korea. The delivery bike was severly abused/neglected/mistreated...pick your own term.

First things that had to be replaced were brakes, fork seals and the time chain and timing chain tensioner and a new exhaust system. I couldn't get a Jardine or other brand name exhaust over here (prices are unbelievable) so the mechanic made a custom one, by putting some mufflers from a Korean bike on it, pulling some of the baffles out, and making new headers. Looks great, and sounds nice. Just a tad louder than stock. Luckily I have a depenedable (enough) mechanic over here, and after a few days the bike was on the road. If I had a garage (or anything similar) the work would have all been done by myself. I am not a mechanic, but I tend to be quite talented with my hands, and I've been putting together old bikes since I was about 10 years old, and helping my dad rebuild them since I could hold a spanner. Lack of space limits the amount of work that can be done, as does monsoon season and early night falls.

The entire time I've owned the bike, I've battled a leaky fuel petcock, leaky float bowls, and rough idling (about once a month) and backfiring (following the wonky idling). When it would idle rough, I would drain the float bowls, and it always ran better afterwards. I always assumed some water got into it, or some dirt. I didn't put much effort into fixing the bike up, as it was just something to get me around when I couldn't be bothered to take the subway or a bus.

In March of this year, I went out for a ride, and the belt disentegrated on me. I was bummed, because I knew the belt would cost more than what the bike was worth, and I got lucky on Ebay and found a NOS belt and with shipping it was less than 100$. The bike sat for about a month, waiting for the belt to arrive.

Once I got the belt installed, I took it for a ride and it was fine. The next day, I was going to drive it to work, and the bike wouldn't start. Dead battery. I bought a trickly charger instead of a new battery, and recharged mine. I decided it was time to tackle the battery issue, and find out why my battery kept dying. I started by eliminating the extra lights/sirens and other wires that the PO had put on the bike when it was in service for deliverys. I also discovered that the main fuse block/relay was bad, the starter solenoid was shot, and the clutch/neutral switch was disabled. I got that sorted out in no time, again thanks to quick service from excellent En500 ebayers, only to still have a battery that wouldn't stay charged, but it was holding a charge longer now. I decided it had to be a problem with the Stator, Regulator or Flywheel Magneto. Upon taking off the alternator cover, I saw the famous shattered Kawasaki magnets. This is sometime around the begining of May. The bike has been sitting for a couple of months now, and before the belt fix it had also sat for about 4 months waiting out a winter. No it wasn't winterized, because it doesn't snow much here in the winter, so I drive it on sunny days. (driving is fun even in the extreme cold). Waiting for the new Flywheel to come in the mail (another ebay prize for less than 100$) I found out the seller shipped it to my address in America. It wouldn't get to Korea (by the time my dad shipped it) until sometime in June. I was going home at the end of July, so I told my dad to just wait, and not waste the money shipping it to my address in Korea. (keeping prices as low as possible on my project)

I came back to Korea at the end of August, with a new Magneto Flywheel, Brake rotor (mine was like a set of train tracks) brake pads front and rear, new regulator, a new c.d.i, and pod air filters for the carbs. The P.O. had removed the air filter, and drilled out the airbox, and never put in another filter. The bike ran, so I left it alone. Not having another EN500 to compare it to, I thought the performance was fine. It wasn't. I thought that once I got back it would be as simple as putting on the flywheel and starting the bike up.

It's been 2 weeks since I've been back to Korea, and I still can't get the bike to start. I put the flywheel on, a new stator, pickups, spark plugs, wires, caps and the regulator. The spark was so much stronger than before I started the work, I was sure that it would fire right away. All it did was backfire. Loudly. One time. I tried again, with a bit of starting fluid, hoping that the bike would catch and run on its own accord again, and the same loud backfire was my reward.

I took the carbs off, hoping to see a bunch of gunk inside, but they were spotless. I cleaned them anyhow, with a tooth brush, carb cleaner, q tips, and compressed air. I made sure the floats were at 17 mms, and if the bike ever starts up again, I'll be doing the carb synch with the oil-in-a-tube taped to a yard stick tool. I did spill some antifreeze in the cylinder when I took the valve cover off to set the valve clearances (thinking this would help it start and eliminate the chatter I hear when driving) The valves were within their tolerances. I think it was something around .015" for the front and .018" for the rear (whatever the normal range is, mine were right smack in the middle on all of them) Valves out of the way, I changed the oil to get rid of the Anti-freeze that spilled in. I reinstalled the spark plugs, (checked for spark) and found that the bike wouldn't even give me the heart-stopping backfire now.

According to everythign I read, the bike takes around 3.4 liters of oil. I also read that the window the oil should be about halfway. The bike only had about 2 liters in it, and the window was halfway, I hit three litres and the window was covered, it is possible that I measured wrong, I was doing a lot of the work by flashlight (never recomended, my wife wants me to start using her fathers garage. I would but he lives too far away to convienently work on the bike).

I need some insight to what could be keeping me from starting this bike, and having one last riding season before leaving Korea for the warmth of Arizona.

There is gas in the carbs, and good spark. When I put the pod air filters on, I blocked the vaccuum port on the carb, and used a rubber hose (until the Coasters come in the mail) to block off the reed valve air induction ports on top of the valve cover. I am going to the store right now to get a paper filter to put on the crankcase breather. (would this keep it from starting, if the crankcase breather has no filter on it?) Cleaning the carbs I discovered that the main jets didn't have the rubber o-rings or spacers, and the bowls were put together with some silicon sealant. I'm sure the other jets are messed up. I'm not looking for instant good running, I'm looking for somethign that shows it will start. I ordered the carb rebuild kit today, and I am ordering new Jets from Keihin. (I'm not sure which kind yet, I'm waiting for them to respond to an email I sent them, I will update with whatever they recomend).

I have made a lot of changes recently, and before I started it, the bike ran, just it wasn't worth a crap.
Can you please help me see whatever it is that I'm missing. I want to be thorough, because I also help many of my friends with bike stuff, and this is leaving me feeling cruddy not knowing what I did wrong or missed.

To sum it up, new plugs, wires, caps, flywheel, stator, wiring harness, starter relay, fuse box, c.d.i. unit, pod air filters, exhaust, valve cover.
The bike is getting gas, and it has good spark.
I can't bump start it.
I can't get it to backfire anymore.
It won't acknowledge starting fluid.

Sorry for being so long winded, I tried to keep it short.... I appreciate you taking your time to read through it, and I hope you can add some insight.

Once again thank you in advance for your help and support!

Josh

You'll have to do significant amounts of adjusting to get pod filtration to perform. It will begin and run with out changes from inventory but the immediate you contact the accelerator it will basically run like shit! Since without the limitation of the air box it goes way trim when you begin the accelerator. I'd individually suggest discovering a inventory air box, air narrow, and primary carbs airplanes. Tuning a carbs can be a discomfort. If your not discouraged by the dark art of carbs adjusting then you will need a choice of airplanes. I purchased a variety of airplanes off of jetsrus.com I'll have to dig up what airplanes I finished up with. The primary jet is the only jet you're really going to have to modify. The nonproductive jet (if that's what it's known as, I don't remember) will need to be modified. and your hook jet will most likely need to be shimmed. I got my own to perform, but I like the way the inventory set up performs as it's much better to function.

Sibanda
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:17 pm
I ride: Bike

Re: 1991 Vulcan 500 Carb/Spark/Starter Problem

Postby Sibanda » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:17 pm

loudjosh81 wrote:
According to everythign I read, the bike takes around 3.4 liters of oil. I also read that the window the oil should be about halfway. The bike only had about 2 liters in it, and the window was halfway, I hit three litres and the window was covered, it is possible that I measured wrong, I was doing a lot of the work by flashlight (never recomended, my wife wants me to start using her fathers garage. I would but he lives too far away to convienently work on the bike).

I need some insight to what could be keeping me from starting this bike, and having one last riding season before leaving Korea for the warmth of Arizona.

There is gas in the carbs, and good spark. When I put the pod air filters on, I blocked the vaccuum port on the carb, and used a rubber hose (until the Coasters come in the mail) to block off the reed valve air induction ports on top of the valve cover. I am going to the store right now to get a paper filter to put on the crankcase breather. (would this keep it from starting, if the crankcase breather has no filter on it?) Cleaning the carbs I discovered that the main jets didn't have the rubber o-rings or spacers, and the bowls were put together with some silicon sealant. I'm sure the other jets are messed up. I'm not looking for instant good running, I'm looking for somethign that shows it will start. I ordered the carb rebuild kit today, and I am ordering new Jets from Keihin. (I'm not sure which kind yet, I'm waiting for them to respond to an email I sent them, I will update with whatever they recomend).

I have made a lot of changes recently, and before I started it, the bike ran, just it wasn't worth a crap.
Can you please help me see whatever it is that I'm missing. I want to be thorough, because I also help many of my friends with bike stuff, and this is leaving me feeling cruddy not knowing what I did wrong or missed.



Josh


Actually i think 3.4 liter of oil for the bike is A lot.


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